Twitter Banter

Twitter Banter

Had some lovely Twitter banter with a self-proclaimed ‘positive viber’ this weekend and thought it may be of interest to you fine people.

#BanterMerchant

 

I try to interact and reply to everyone on my twitter should they ask a question or just say ‘hi’. I think it’s important to be polite and recognise everyone, regardless of their intelligence or opinion, especially for brands who use Twitter regularly (which should be everyone).

Posted below is the conversation I had on Sunday with @ScarletGrenades which shows both sides of the discussion – he first of all thought investing $500 in a properly designed logo was ‘ignorant’ only to suggest a better, free alternative, commenting that I’m “just a FREELANCER” of which I’m not entirely sure of the accusation – although more directly a ‘rip-off’ and ‘scrub’ – hahaha.

Have a read through the great banter below and let me know who was in the wrong in the comments.

 

N.B. – my logo design prices are actually a bit higher than the quoted $500 with the basic, startup packages beginning around £850GBP

 

if you are looking for a professional graphic designer, click here to get a quote now!


20 Comments

  1. Gary Loper

    Social networking sites should be the messages that attract people to you, your site, your services. Pricing discussions should not be done publicly, rather – when the “how much” question is asked, invite them for a free consultation call. In this call, you will better establish the value you bring to customers, instead of implying that price = value. Taking social connections to the next level, gives us so many more opportunities to build trust and rapport and in many cases impress upon them the quality of your work and extra benefits of working with you, perhaps you may even up-sell them.

    Reply
    • LMVUS

      I agree with Gary 100%. Not sure what you hoped to gain with this post but best of luck with it.

      Reply
  2. A Freelancer

    I’m a freelancer so I can imagine how that must have felt.

    BUT..

    Why shame the guy? You know he was wrong and that’s why you are shaming him to begin with, right? I don’t think shaming him is going to change anything.

    I checked the guy’s Twitter account out and it was deleted. It‘s the second time in two days that I read/hear/see people end their Twitter life because of shaming. And *that* is a shame.

    Again, I understand your point, but you really didn’t need to post about it.

    Reply
    • Stuart

      The intention was not to target the person in particular (and I feel bad that he felt the need to delete his Twitter upon reconsideration of his comments) but the point of this post was to draw attention to the opinion people have of freelancers.

      As a freelancer you know this isn’t a one-off view, in fact, due in part to crowdsourcing, design as a whole is becoming devalued. Once regarded as a skilled craft which takes years to master, now seems regarded as something literally anyone can do with a PC and Photoshop. As such, comments like ‘why spend $500 when I can get it for free?’ have become very, very commonplace.

      So again, this post is meant to be less of a personal attack, more to shine light on a recurring discourse that’s pushing opinion I believe in the wrong direction.

      Reply
  3. Lawrence

    I agree with your general principles : valuing design and so forth. But you also have to be realistic. This person just wants something basic to put up. He doesn’t want (or need) professional design. Would a $1000 logo achieve more in this situation than a $20 one? Most likely not. Why? Because no one gives a shit. Hence the reason it wouldn’t be worth your time and energy anyway. I suppose design is only valuable if there is a need for it. If there is no need, there is no ROI from your offering.

    People often ask me to create new work for them and the first questions I ask are “what do you want to be achieved?”, “how will this help your business?” and “why do this now?”. I concentrate on their ROI needs and recommend a solution to get the maximum. A lot of the time, the recommendation doesn’t match their original idea. That’s the value you give as a professional. Then you work out what you can do with the budget they have, breaking the work down into smaller chunks and concentrating on the most important stuff first (the stuff that gives them ROI.)

    So my response in your situation would be this…

    “Really need a Graphic Designer to make a logo for my clan. Please help us get rid of this egg pic

    Reply
    • Stuart

      Thanks for the comment Lawrence.

      I think it’s wrong to say outright that he doesn’t ‘want or need professional design’. I mean, professional gamers are a legitimate profession and who am I to say that this guy wants a placeholder image for his youtube over something more serious?

      With aspirations to be a professional himself, then yes, a properly considered and developed logo at $1000 over a piece of conceptually-void clipart from Fiverr or 99Designs would be a sensible investment.

      I do like the initial questions you ask potential clients, and it’s something I do myself to quickly gain a basic understanding of their needs and goals. Thanks for the contribution.

      Reply
  4. Megan

    Piggy-backing on the comment by Noureddine:
    Freelancers are awesome and as a freelancer or anyone in this day and age, it’s important to advertise for yourself. We have so much technology around communication and the internet is a huge part of it. Who does’t advertise on the internet these days? It’s the best method and it’s utilizing the tools at your disposal. You’d be crazy to discredit or disregard this as valid mode of communication and personal advertisement.

    I know that before I even chose to go into design for a living or even choose my major and college, I talked to a few designers at companies to get a feel for the industry. At least 4 out of the 5 spoke about how being a successful freelance designer was their ideal goal for design. Same for illustrators, and they also get a lot of internet mudslinging.

    Reply
  5. Noureddine

    My favourite part is when he asks “What kind of “Professional”” you are because you were “Engaging people on social media?”. Forgetting completely that he was the one who reached out to you.

    I have no idea why people have this assumption that freelancers are at the lower pool of our industry. I’d say it’s actually quite the opposite. Some of the best designers I’ve ever come across are freelancers. The funny thing is that the professor he seems to be referring to could be a freelancer as well.

    Pathetic. Great job handling the situation though, I would have completely lost it!

    Reply
    • Stuart

      That’s one part that annoyed me actually, I was being discredited as professional for communicating with people. Glad you picked up on it 🙂

      Reply
  6. Git Pusher

    Looks like @ScarletGrenades deleted their Twitter account after this… No worries, you can still find him under @OrionsOath 🙂

    Reply
    • Stuart

      Yeah, quite a few folks jumped in on the discussion on twitter and as a result, the guy seemed to have just closed the account – never my intention of bringing this up or including his handle.

      Reply
  7. Barbara

    Ouch, Stuart, he sounds more like a vitriolic viper than a positive viber!

    Reply
  8. Juan Olvera

    I don’t want to sound like a dick, but what do you expect for someone looking for a logo for his “Clan”?

    That probably I’m wrong and he is a professional gamer and he earn his live playing.

    Anyway you did right, keep looking for good clients and avoid guys like that.

    Reply
    • Stuart

      Thanks for the comment Juan – I should have made clear that the first interaction I had with him was via the second tweet when he @ messaged me. I only saw the first tweet when combining in storify ad added it for background/context.

      Reply
  9. Andy Leverenz

    Well done on your replies. I can relate to this matter with design for web and applications as a freelancer myself. People will always want something for nothing and until they actually understand the value, like you were trying to educate, then the end result may be quick or cheap but not quality nor original. Again well done. It was both pleasing and sickening to read this. Would you pay an architect a cheaper rate because he’s an independent contractor or his designs were nice to look at but faulty? Highly unlikely.

    Reply
  10. Jaie Hart

    I find that online, people behave rather poorly and this appears to be a case of “it’s easy to attack and behave poorly when I’m brave behind my computer screen” kind of thing. Perhaps even jealousy that you would dare to create something and charge a price for your gift. Good way to put it right back. You did not attack, the other did and that says more about them and the true space they hold. Sounds to me you are by far better off. I got off of twitter because I have a full-time job and kids I’m raising. I don’t have time to respond to every tweet and I don’t have time for trolls. Wishing you all the best in all of your endeavors. 🙂

    Reply
  11. William E Spicer

    Like the old saying “you get what you pay for”. Question: what makes the “professor” an EXPERT in LOGO design??

    Reply
    • Stuart

      Great point, most design educators cover all bases well, rather than narrow in on a specialist subject… like freelancers who become experts in targeted niches.

      Reply
  12. James

    Well done for fighting back. The only way we’re gonna survive as an industry is if we all demand a fair price for our work.

    A lot of clients seem to think that logo design just involves the designer drawing one quick logo for them and moving on. In reality it’s nothing like that. It’s often days of back and forth where they ask for repeated edits and reversions.

    The approach I take is if they want to pay me $100 for a logo then fine, I’ll do it, but for that money they’re getting a maximum 2 hours of my time and I let them know that in advance. If they’re not happy with the hasty result then they have nobody to blame but themselves.

    Also, a big lol at the implication that freelancing is somehow lower than in-house. Most of us freelancers have worked in-house in the past and find more creative freedom in working independently with many different clients. I gained more professional and design experience in a year of freelancing than I did in 3 in-house.

    Reply
    • Stuart

      Thanks James, you’re absolutely correct.

      I was trying to educate rather than ‘fight’, but you can’t help some people!

      Reply

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